[room] on SVN/GIT

[Michael Shigorin]

	Hello,
several thoughts while quoting http://wiki.freebsd.org/VCSWhy:
> Linus wrote git to suit his needs for linux. He has one thing
> going for us that we don't.  There is a large cult of
> personality surrounding Linus. There is intense pressure to
> "validate" your work by getting it approved (directly or by
> proxy) by Linus.

I always thought that quite a few freebsd folks were sort of dumb
in their inability to judge facts, but this is by far one of the
most scary examples.

There's no "cult of personality" in itself there.  There are no
"his needs for linux".

There _is_ a workflow and a management style that just helps
people be more productive.

It also involves attitude.  But it also involves workflow.  And tools.

http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Git_Management

> On the other hand, we already have problems extracting work
> from people.  We can't assume that we'll get the same inward
> flow that Linus gets.
I think that with this level of fear and lack of reasonable
behaviour you can safely assume quite the opposite.

> there are some choice quotes
I think that quite some of yours from this wiki page *are* (not
just *read* to me) way more idiotic than what you try to make of
Linus' ones.

Like:
> Uhh, what? We'd have to split src/* into a mess of subtrees to make git work well? 
You can split your mess into a less messy one, or you can leave
it as is.  You can make git work better for you, or you can
continue working for cvs (or svn, no real difference).

Go ask xorg folks, some of them was heard saying "linux folks got
it right" after some work has been done on post-7.0 bunch of
repos.  IIRC he was referring to avoiding bit rot in what is
naturally more tightly coupled than the rest.

> Having "secret" work areas is a good thing??? 
Ever heard of r/o cvs replicas?  No?  There's a nice internet
search service running on Linux, you might still be interested in
finding out what he might have meant and you seem to have
misunderstood.

Also recommended reading:
http://tomayko.com/writings/the-thing-about-git

> We're not Linux. A good number of our best supporters stick with us
> because we're a coherent tree and not like linux' chaos. 
Got five minutes of pride, eh?  Well, let's see where your
soapbox is in five years.

Is "linux' chaos" like multiple vendors with _supported_ branches
for not, speaking your language, bare basesystem but a subset of
ports as well while you can't afford to even branch an upstream
properly, not even talking of ports at all?  or is it like not
having to give up on _development_ practices like branches only
because the tool is broken and so is the mind that follows that
tool?

> That seems to be what a git strategy requires in order to work well.
Go educate yourself please.

> hg: attitude of developers (pro, they seem very accomodating..)
Poor hg.

>> Why do you seem to be pushing subversion?
> It's because I am. I think the whole hg/git thing is a distraction.
It's because you are what?  Someone with no ability to reason
beyond "because"?  I think that your "I think" is a bit
stretched: you seem to rather /feel/.  Like a blonde.

> We need something NOW. svn will work for us and gains us some
> huge benefits immediately.  [...] FWIW, if p4 hadn't come along
> and worked, we would have been using svn for the last 2-3
> years.
In another 2-3 years, folks might dig this up on Google and
wonder what was the logic to say that:

- p4 was unfortunately "good enough" to stay in old and broken
  development paradigm, while
- svn was suddenly Good Enough(TM) to let freebsd stay with its
  trusty customary paradigm!

Bothering to change horses might just be nice reason to rethink
much deeper things than what you have on your very nose, the
particular tool.  You have broken paradigm, and still you refuse
to acknowledge that, gnarling pointlessly that someone else
refuses patches when you have to extort them and not paying
attention to "how come?" part of that.

It's what I've told for years on freebsd crowd: you don't want to
see further than your nose, and still you take pride in that.

Silly.

Good luck in seeing things though.

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike на altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/