[sisyphus] хаос и бардак вокруг browser-plugins-npapi [#freedesktop: -> mozilla.org]

[Michael Shigorin]

On Wed, Aug 16, 2006 at 03:43:47PM +0300, Andrei Bulava wrote:
> BTW, когда наконец устаканится хаос и бардак с
> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/ и /usr/lib/browser-plugins-npapi/?
> Половина плагинов там, другая половина сям, третья (я в курсе
> насчёт количества половин) - и там, и сям!

Вот лог с #freedesktop; выводы:

1) в SUSE и Ubuntu по крайней мере тоже не-/usr/lib/mozilla;
2) goto mozilla.org

---
<gvy> so should I forget my daydream on pinging fd.o regarding standardizing browser plugin path beyond legacy /usr/lib/{netscape,mozilla}?
<DrNick> nobody will ever use it
<dobey> that only works for browsers that support those types of plug-ins
<gvy> at least konqueror and opera
<dobey> you'd have to standardize api across browsers and everything as well
<gvy> it's called NPAPI, as a matter of fact
<dobey> yes, it's what netscape invented
<dobey> and it just happens that others have implemented support for it, to get free plug-ins
<gvy> yep
<dobey> and it already has a directory associated with it
<gvy> I guess even two...
<dobey> well
<dobey> it has as many as you want
<gvy> and both are currently belonging to dead products, basically
<dobey> $MOZ_PLUGIN_PATH
<gvy> everyone honours that?
<ajax> "dead"
<ajax> funny how firefox looks there too
<dobey> i don't know. they should if they are implementing the api
<ajax> it's almost like it's the same code!
<dobey> otherwise, they have a bug
<dobey> haha
<dobey> yeah, mozilla is /so/ dead
<gvy> ajax, firefox isn't mozilla per se (a suite's name)
<dobey> ajax: can you take care of my account mod bug?
<dobey> gvy: i think more to the point it just seems like you're trying to solve a solved problem
<agd5f> ajax: ping
<dobey> it seems like the answer is better documentation, and some bug filing, rather than a specification on fd.o
<gvy> dobey, actually I try to understand whether it's just ah ok to stick to long known by fact paths, even if the products are EOLed
<gvy> or to kinda push the world to try and standardize e.g. /usr/lib/npapi/plugins
<ajax> agd5f: pong
<dobey> gvy: Mozilla isn't EOLed.
<gvy> the "problem" is that in ALT Linux, mozilla/konqie folks decided to move that to /usr/lib/browser-plugins-npapi to avoid depending on /usr/lib/mozilla (thus mozilla package, or at least mozilla-plugins-common)
<ajax> gvy: what problem that people are actually having would that solve?
<gvy> dobey, AFAIK it's unsupported -- did you see 1.7.14 with what went into FF 1.5.0.3+?
<dobey> gvy: in suse, we install things to $libdir/browser-plugins i think
<dobey> gvy: that path may be deprecated. the answer is to use MOZ_PLUGIN_PATH anyway, i think
<gvy> dobey, I've heard about suse's ff looking "exclusively" into /opt/MozillaFirefox/plugins or something like that -- didn't pay attention to it while looking at 10.x though
<gvy> dobey, hm, thanks for considerations
<agd5f> ajax: can you add a user?  see bug 7757
<dobey> gvy: well, i have a crapload of plug-ins in /usr/lib/browser-plugins
<dobey> so someone is full of crap
<gvy> :]
<gvy> I have too in /usr/lib/browser-plugins-npapi/
<gvy> let's put it another way -- can it be worth the trouble to get the reasons SUSE and ALT did it this way (a bit differently, of course) and propose something sane enough for folks to listen to?
<gvy> or let's forget this and leave things as they are, per-distro?
<gvy> I just don't understand the real level of cross-distro exchange and unification where it doesn't cost much
<gvy> afaik xvendor mailing list is rather dead
<Mithrandir> gvy: it's probably less "we want to do it differently" than somebody just making an arbitary decision and then not changing it until they're forced to.  Change costs, too.
<gvy> Mithrandir, hi TFH!
<Mithrandir> hiya
<gvy> Mithrandir, I understand that quite ok -- the question is, are such things subject to normalization or generally not yet?
<gvy> we met on sounder@ I gues
<gvy> *guess
<ajax> argh.  next person to paste keys rather than attaching gets smacked.
<Mithrandir> gvy: they seem to be done through FHS a lot, it seems.  Or upstream saying "dudes, please use $foo" and all the distros complying.
<Mithrandir> gvy: we probably did, yeah.
<gvy> hm, so writing down some tiny draft and submitting that to bugzilla and FHS people might make sense?
<ajax> heh.  so apparently in fedora, /usr/lib/mozilla is owned by both firefox and kdebase.
<ajax> not a problem here!
<dobey> gvy: the reason we do it that way, is so that people don't have to install plug-ins to every possible directory for every possible browser they want to use the with
<gvy> ajax, oh, fedora is known for having awful packages
<gvy> old redhat was completely terrible with 20-meg blocks with completely cracked deps though :(
* Mithrandir notes that Ubuntu (and I guess Debian too) doesn't have /usr/lib/mozilla, just /u/l/m-f
<ajax> gvy: i'm still not clear what problem you're attempting to solve
<ajax> it sounds like "everyone checks in /usr/lib/mozilla but we don't want to call it that for some reason"
<dobey> well, the ISV problem is somewhat clear i guess. but specifying it as a standard for browser authors, doesn't help much
<gvy> not as much for browser authors (not that many browsers out there are worth the trouble), but plugin authors and packagers of all sort
<dobey> ajax: thanks for the admining :)
<gvy> it might be "solving RSS0.9/RSS2 problem with ATOM" though
<dobey> gvy: it sounds like that should be worked out with the mozilla foundation and their documentation then
<dobey> rather than freedesktop.org
<gvy> when one gets three standards instead of already too much (two)
<gvy> dobey, ok, thanks for hint
<ajax> i'm still unclear what was wrong with /usr/lib/mozilla
<dobey> ajax: nothing is necessarily wrong with it. the problem is more that it keeps getting moved
<dobey> ie, it's not canonical in mozilla/firefox itself. it's only cannonical in some distributions
<ajax> MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME has defaulted to /usr/lib/mozilla since like M3
<ajax> so i'm not really sure how much longer that has to be the case for it to be considered the default
---

-- 
 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike на altlinux.ru>
  ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/